Arteen is with me today in Pasadena. We're actually poolside in Pasadena.

Living!

So nice to have you here on the east side, I hope that we can lure you and your fiancée over this way.

That's the hope. That's my dream. I'm, uh, excited to hopefully end up in a dry heat again from Arizona.

Welcome to a hundred-degree weather. Well, our team, you are part of the OG LA crew, LA tech scene, but as we were just saying, like you and I didn't totally overlap because I joined in 2019. You went to operating in 2020, but originally you worked with TX at the Carlin family office before moving with TX right when Fika was just getting started. You went from Fika to WonderCo and then to a startup route in an operating role. Very interested to hear about that, but you're back at Fika. You guys just announced your 160-million-dollar fund four, congratulations. Try to summarize it, get it all out there.

It is pretty crazy. I mean, it is. It's so funny how, like I, so I moved to LA in 2012 and actually my first job out here was I launched built in LA, and it was awesome because the business model was, you know, we wrote a lot of content and then we had a jobs board. And so for me, it was this amazing excuse at the time, I was like a 21 year old who wanted to move to LA, wanted to be in tech. And I literally got paid to move out here and meet every startup and every VC, And that like snowballed into this like insane series of events over the last like 11 years now.

Didn’t you do Techstars at some point?

Yeah, I did. The path there, if it's interesting was the summer after my sophomore year, I did an investment banking internship in New York, and it took me about six hours to realize that that's not me. Like anyone who knows me, and it knows me for six seconds, is like, that guy's not meant to be an investment banker.

But the summer I was in New York was kind of when, New York was having one of its earlier tech moments. And growing up, I have entrepreneurial parents, like, small business owners, but I didn't, I like didn't realize that people started companies like Google and at the time Facebook and all these things I thought you know, you own a restaurant, you own a retail store, whatever and so being in New York being in banking it exposed me to tech even though I hated banking. I was like, oh my gosh tech is really interesting.

And so I just got scrappy and I cold emailed about 150 people. And one of those people that I, that I emailed was Troy Henikoff, who at the time was running accelerate labs, which became Techstars Chicago. And so catapult, you know, six, 12 months later, I ended up working for tech star Chicago that summer. And it was the exact opposite experience that I had from banking, which was like the first six minutes. I walked into this coworking space. I walked into the Techstars space and I was like, Oh my gosh, like this is what I've been seeking. And, and that led to, I first met TX at Techstar Chicago's demo day.

I love the notion that like, walking into any investment bank, I could never imagine like, like a neon sign that says hashtag give first.
Yeah, exactly. Yeah, 100%. Oh, and like, and don't get me wrong, like, I have lot of respect for you know what bankers do because it's a skill set that I just don't have it but like, yeah, that's kind of how it all started.

But now you're back at Fika. I'm so curious about going into an operating role after being a VC and then coming back. you know, what was that like? Did it feel different? Why come back? All those questions.

Yeah, and I love, and I love those questions because like, honestly, I think a lot of people have like the path of operating and then into VC, And I also think a lot of people do VC for two to four years and then go operate. I think my path of like having done it for seven years and like candidly having had the opportunity to stay in it but leaving was really unique. Right. And, and so, the number one thing I like to say on this is I did it cause I wanted to, not cause I felt like I had to, like, I think there's a lot of VCs who, they're like, Oh, I heard I have to go get operating experience to be a partner or like, Oh, I have to. And like, to me, that was just, that is such an inauthentic way to be a person.

Yeah.

And so for me, that was always like, it was really funny because even my first year or two at route, like, I had so many people ask me like, Oh, is it, is it like, are you getting what you wanted to get? And, and the answer for me was always yes, because I wanted an experience that I felt like I hadn't had yet. and so yeah, going to, going to route and going to operate and leaving venture was honestly just because like, I felt like there was like an emptiness in my stomach. Like I really felt like I had outpaced myself as an investor than I ever had done as an entrepreneur or as an operator. And I felt like I, my rate of learning had slowed and Michael Tam, to his credit from craft and you're almost neighbor, almost neighbor, Tam was the one who was like, Hey, we just invested in this company route, which to the Series A, and I think they need somebody like you and you'd be a really good fit. and I ended up having an amazing experience.

I was very fortunate to have, and then coming back to venture has been fascinating because like, I'm just, I think a lot of people, and you kind of alluded to this in the beginning I moved to LA at the end of 2012, early 2013. So, I've been here over 10 years, almost over 11 years.And I was in venture almost immediately. And so because of that, I know a lot of people in LA. I've been here for a long time, and I spent so much of that time building relationships. But also, I'm such a different human being now. I'm like 33 versus 21. And like, a lot of life happens there. And so like, 12 years later, I'm coming back to venture, but I'm also like reintroducing myself to the community.

That's part of why I wanted to do this is because like me today versus me seven years ago would have a much different conversation with you.
What about skill wise? Day to day work wise? Because I came the other direction, I had never been a VC and it’s a different day to day.
100%. Yes. So I will say that I was, and this is like to any listeners who are VCs thinking about operating. And then I want Minnie, I want your response to the inverse, I was very lucky that I found the right role where a lot of my skill set as an investor was applicable. I wasn't hired to be like the VP of finance or the VP of marketing.

I joined as VP of strategy later on, became SVP of strategy. I joke that at a company of that stage, you don't really need a strategy lead, but we didn't have a COO. We didn't have a CFO so for me, it was just this like, how can I be the most valuable member of the executive team when we have an excellent CRO, an excellent CTO, an excellent CEO, but we don't have a COO or a CFO.

And so I loved sitting in the strategy bucket because the first year or two, my skill set was very transferable because it was kind of like, do whatever was high priority, but didn't have an owner. And it really was this amazing journey where in the first year or two, it was fill the gap myself and then hire people who were better than me to fill those gaps. And I think, again, thinking about this from the lens of like others who are considering going into an operating role from a VC role, you have to lean into your own superpower because like, I like to say that I'm like a mile wide and three inches deep. Like I'm not, I'm not one inch deep. Like I have some depth to me, but I'm not like a mile deep in anything. And I happened to find a company that I loved that I thought was good. It was on the path to great success and needed somebody with that skill set.

And so I had a, yeah, a winding journey, but it was always, based in what are my superpowers? And I think that's where for me the transferability of skills, ended up being pretty, clear because I didn't go into the operating role thinking I'm going to go build a whole new set of skills. It was more of a new set of experiences with the same skills.

It's actually similar to what I would have said like a lot of what you did, I was a founder. It was harder for me, I think, at times to give away, to give away my hats. Like, I wore so many hats. But as a VC, you see that in all of your companies. The successful founders just give away responsibilities all the time. But it's almost easier if you've seen that a hundred times to know, no one's taking my job.

Yes, totally. you have to scale yourself and, seeing the like a founder having to delegate is so much harder than coming into your point as like an executive hire who gets to look at, I had the privilege of not, you know, no one's calling my baby ugly. There's none of this stuff. It's truly just like objective.

I'm curious for you on this. Actually, one of the things that happened to me, the first like month into route, somebody asked me like, what's the biggest difference between VC and operating? And I actually was like, one of the biggest differences for me is that in VC think it's a common misconception that VC isn't hard. I actually think it's an incredibly hard job and I think you work your butt off. if you're good, so it's not a time thing, but the schedule control in a VC you can do what we're by the pool. We're having a blast and it's like what I don't what is it? It's tuesday..

Right exactly and that's not to say that like oh, we're all playing tennis and hanging by the pool But but I remember there'd be times at route in my first month or two again before I like learned the heuristics Of how to actually operate as a as a you know Good operator But I would go to bed at like Monday night.

I'd look at my calendar for Tuesday and it would be like, Oh, good. I've got three hours in the morning and then I've got five meetings and then I've got some time where I can do some deep work.

I'd wake up and that three hour was totally gone. Whole day was stacked. It was like meetings and meetings and like not in a bad way, just in a you, you very quickly as an operator have to relinquish any sense of control, because there's so much volatility, both among teams and the market and something happens. And so I'm curious how that was for you after having been an operator so long.

Yeah, I mean my company, every company is slightly different, but, so we sold used cars. Biggest sale days are Saturday and Sunday, right? So, we worked Monday through Friday and then at Crises happened Saturday, Sunday. So it was absolutely a seven day a week. And I came into VC and I'm like, guys, I want you to reply to my email on Saturdays and on Sundays. You're like, well, why? Not like TenOneTen, but just generally

That is because every industry it's so different. So like route was e commerce enablement, black Friday and cyber Monday was literally like, I remember being like my Thanksgiving, like, you know, home with the family. And then the next day it was like, you know, every minute you're checking the slacks, you're checking what's going on, cause like so much of e commerce happens. In that exact timeline that it's just like, yeah, it's and it's so interesting because like, even, there's these little heuristics that you really learn by living and feeling them versus like, you know, everyone can say, oh, yeah, e commerce or seasonality and you in Q four and it's like, yeah, but like when you're like, you know, Was there seasonality in cars throughout the year? Is it summer or tax returns? thought, yeah.

Yes, oh yes. Tax returns are actually big

I have an uncle who owns a used car store. and it was such an interesting because I had spent almost all my career as a B2B investor and then going to route where we had a lot of, you know, consumer at least exposure.We were B2B2C it was so interesting to see at scale consumer trends you know, an end of one like you and I might buy stuff at different times of the year or whatever But when you like zoom out high enough on a consensus basis There are some really fascinating trends like tax returns.

I mean, let's talk about your investing and talk about Route. You said it's e commerce enablement. I saw on the brief LinkedIn post that e commerce enablement is still of interest.


What did you learn at Route? What are you thinking about? Is that going to be something you're leaning into?

Yes, so at Fika, we kind of operate with what we call pod structures. And the way we think about that is that like each of the partners has a domain of expertise. Like we're all B2B software investors. but each of us have like a domain where we think we have expertise, and we spend more of our time there. And for me, it's kind of marketplaces, commerce enablement, Supply chain logistics business in a box. Even route, like what excited me about going there. It's this B2B2C business model that had so many different, touch points, right? So, we had a consumer tracking software. We had an app that competes with the Shopify shop app that shows you where all your stuff is. We had this package protection product, which is B2B2C. It's an add on at checkout for e commerce brands to basically, if the packages are lost, damaged or stolen route would replace it. So, there was this like B2B2C motion.

I think right now there's a really interesting moment when it comes to just like consumer acquisition and also b2b acquisition and so like for me one of the things that made route so special was this b2b2C motion was incredible Like we have amazing, you know app downloads amazing. Revenue coming from end consumers, but it's a b2b2c channel,

you didn't have to market to consumers.

Exactly, and marketing to consumers is so hard and so much Harder than it was a couple of years ago with all the changes and cookie laws and things like this. So like anything that has like hot, you know, CACs have only gone up, when it comes to consumer. I think the market is getting more and more competitive.

So like, anyways, as long as we're saying as a B2B investor, I think a lot of that still has throughput from consumer. and I think for me. distribution is actually the thing that is just so compelling. and I don't know if I would have agreed with this seven or eight years ago, but I think that an 80 percent product with 100 percent distribution actually will win out in the short term, at least in this market versus I would say seven or eight years ago, if you had the 100 percent product, the distribution would find its way. I think things just move so fast now in like this a I enabled, you know, landscape where like first to market or fastest to market with a product that is like good enough is actually, I think, almost more effective

I don’t disagree, but those are two slightly different things, which is having an angle, like having a good B2B2C motion, that’s different than having a first mover.

I agree, and it's funny because tried to rephrase from first mover right after. I forget what I said, but it was something, the word I'm seeking is not necessarily first mover as much as it's like fastest to growth maybe rather than try to label it I'll explain what I'm thinking which is that like I think we might be in an era where first mover advantage is kind of Not as great of a moat as it used to be. Cause like the speed with which you can copycat something, like whether that's from big tech or scrappy entrepreneur anywhere in the world, you can stand up a business within a few days now. And so I think first mover advantages that time, which maybe used to be a few years now is maybe a few months before some competitors show up. And so to me, I think a lot about, okay. How do you make sure you get to market quickly, but then you scale your go to market as quickly as possible
I think that we're in this era where three or four or five competitors pop up now at the seed stage and they used to pop up the series B, and I think so you're seeing Seed stage companies, you know, reaching like a million of ARR, 2 million of ARR, and then the path from like 1 or 2 million of ARR to like 5 to 10 million of ARR, it starts to get a lot more competitive, a lot faster than it used to. And so, I think having some sort of a competitive advantage when it comes to distribution or go to market or channel partnerships or things like this, move the needle now more than ever,

Yeah, I mean, but what are those things? And I think you just sort of hinted on them, but like channel partnerships?

Yeah, I'm trying to think of a good example. so, one of the things that I think is really interesting, is about partnerships with people who have distribution already, but don't have the product you're offering. And I think that's a really interesting thing where it's like, hey, if you're servicing, you know, your ICP is dentists, I don't know, pick any market category, right? And you're building a product that is not competitive to, you know, dental practice management software, and you can form a partnership with, hey, this software company has 5,000 dental practices already, but they don't have the thing that I'm offering. Maybe it's a payments thing, or maybe it's something else. Can I go partner with that company and give them, you know, 20 percent of the margin or whatever it may be, whatever the right math is for your business and your economics.

but then they can distribute on my behalf to their 5,000 customers and I'm still getting some revenue. Not to say that the only go to market you should ever have, but I think things like that right now go a lot farther because it's harder than ever to acquire an end user on your own, whether that's a consumer or an SMB or an enterprise.

I just think that like, there's a lot more noise than there used to be. And so cutting through the noise with product, I think is. Maybe really hard, like a lot harder now than it used to be.

100%. I just had Mel from, Mel Tang. He's a fund one at Matter Venture Partners. 300 million fund one. Boom. Um, but he was at Ring and he just said like, he's like, we won because we had distribution, but sometimes I also hear entrepreneurs pitch who are like, we have this amazing partnership and it's going to, they're going to teach all their salespeople to sell our thing. And I'm like, let's also not just hold our breath for that partnership. And it's a tricky dance.

I think there's a very big difference between a product partnership and a channel partnership or a sales partnership. And what I mean by that is I think there's a lot of sales partnerships where it's like, yeah, we're, we're incentivized to cross sell. I think at the end of the day, sales led organizations, it all goes down to the incentive structure for the sales reps. And if their incentive structure is as it most likely is. suited for them to sell their core product. They will always default to selling their core product, even if you're one of only a handful of other products they're selling. So, I think the reseller dynamic is actually a lot harder than the integrated product partnership where it's like, Hey, this is actually a part of their product suite and it's just powered by this other business.

And I think that the takeaway that I've seen there is just honestly, companies do a handful of them. It's almost like building a portfolio, like, hey, do 20 of these partnerships and know that only 5 percent of them are going to work, but those 5 percent are really going to work. Do you feel that's been the case or maybe I just am bad at partnerships?

I tend to agree, which is why I say, hey just because you have this partnership it doesn’t mean I am going to change my forecast or something.
We had that at route there was a couple times where we would have conversations in the board meetings about, hey, this might happen, but we're not going to put that in our board plan because like it, it's transformational. And if it happens, we'll all be very happy, but I would rather not count on it.

So are you leaning into e commerce enablement right now?

Yeah, it's a it's a great question, I think I am leaning I’m very intentionally saying commerce enablement Versus e-commerce enablement because I think e-commerce enablement alone, you have an ecosystem where there's a lot of really interesting products and like Shopify apps. Like there's a lot of useful tools.

There's a lot of great businesses to be had. I'm not sure if there's a ton of platform level, venture scale businesses to be had in e-commerce enablement. And, and I don't say that because I, I'm still actually interested in e-commerce enablement. but I think it is a category that, will create a lot of like, Three to 10 million a year businesses and maybe not a lot of one to 500 million a year businesses. And so, I'm not trying to brand myself as like, Oh, Arteen did route so he's really deep in e commerce enablement. like, I bet you probably don't do a lot of used car marketplace investing.
You almost know too much exactly. And so I think still do e enablement and commerce and I like it. And I think that there's adjacencies there where, there's, Great data around the fact that like still only like 20 ish percent of commerce is happening online on a global basis. And like that will move more and more, online over time. But it's like, you know, a lot of that is more in like, it's like industrials and it's like construction and it's like automotive and it's like all these things where it's like, e commerce enablement often pings like this narrowing mindset of like, Oh, Shopify brands or Shopify stores. And I think that there's a lot more in the commerce enablement industry than just that.if I'm being honest.
Do marketplaces fit there?

So I think of marketplaces like The same way that a lot of people talk about vertical SAS, I think of vertical marketplaces. any industry in the world that has millions of dollars transacting in it, I think there's a marketplace opportunity. I think now the marketplaces look different than they did seven or eight years ago. The way I like to describe it is like, I think in the like 2012-2013 ish era of marketplaces. There was a lot of discovery marketplaces, where it's like, Hey, supply and demand don't know how to find each other.
We were looking at craigslist. That was 10 years go.

Exactly. Literally. That was the mark. The Luma scape was, was it was 10 years. Nobody. And it was, but it was an amazing articulation of where there was opportunity. I think most discovery problems have been solved. I don't want to say all of

No, there are still tradeshows where I am like oh my god

That's it's so funny. That's exactly and that's how I look like. I said this to someone. I was like, I want to spend my time at trade shows, not at like, I don't want to pick on a tech conference, but I'm spending more of my time at trade shows now than I am at generalist tech conference. And it's because I think a lot of these problems exist still, but they're farther down the stack So discovery is less interesting to me. think that we're in a moment where like SaaS enabled marketplaces are really compelling where it's like, hey, Whether it's a free software or an affordable software, give it away to your end user, show them a ton of value and then have embedded commerce. That's probably the area I'm most excited about.
And part of why I love LA just, I mean, we're on an LA podcast. So let's talk about like, LA has. In my opinion, the greatest amount of, diversified industries. San Francisco, I think still certainly wins in tech. Right. But when you think about what is like the one B and the one C industry of each city, LA has like more industries that I would say are an eight out of 10 or a nine out of 10 than any other one of these cities. And so it leads to really interesting stuff that you see getting built here across industries like, you know, construction and manufacturing and obviously aerospace and food. We have a bias towards subject matter experts who are learning tech rather than tech experts who are learning subject matter.

Yeah. you said to me that you're reenergized and it totally shows it's great . Yeah. you're reenergized. Give me a little bit more about Fika. Yeah. This, you just announced this new fund. Who, how many partners are there?

There's three of us in the new fund. It's me, TX and John. we're a total of about 11 people at the firm. I like to say that we try to keep like the hospitality touch to it. Like where it's almost like, and it comes at, honestly, at self-sacrifice. Like I think all of us, like everyone is trying to work founder hours is kind of the way we think about it is like we will match the founders where they are.

And so, whether that means, hey, we'll set up a slack channel with every founder when we invest or they want to text or they want to just call like we try to just like work how they like to work. And so, yeah, we're really pumped. I mean, this is this is an exciting moment. We just closed fund four, the team has worked together in varying capacities for, I mean, obviously TX and I have known each other for 10 plus years, but like I've been friends with John for eight years, Gabriella, who's our principal on the team, she and I worked together at wonder co. And so when I went to route, she actually took over my role at wonder co and then she went to Fika. And so now we're all back together. Like there's a really nice, you know, moment at the firm right now where we're just like all really excited about the future of putting our heads down and like trying to do work.

And so yeah, We're in a really exciting moment. Like fund is closed. we're investing kind of in what I like to call pre series a rounds of like two to eight million checks are like one to five excited. I say the range of one to five because that is the range, but really what it looks like is usually like. A one and a half to two million dollar check in like a let's say two to four million dollar round Or it's like a three to five million dollar check in like a six to eight million dollar round. So it kind of has a little bit of a barbell and those are initial checks and then we'll you know Double triple down in companies and things like that over time.

Double triple down up to a certain valuation?

Yeah, loosely up to a certain valuation for sure. and, I think dependent on kind of just like we are of the mindset that like every future investment is an independent investment decision. and like, I, I think that, you know, people who know Fika will speak to it too, but like, we're, we're definitely like a, don't think Fika wins on price. Like, I think we're a valuation sensitive, like, ownership sensitive firm, and I think that the reason we are that way is just because, like, you know, want to be all in with the entrepreneur, and sometimes, like, you don't want to set yourself up for, like, misaligned incentives.

How so?

I think that there are some investors who are like, honestly predatory and like go very far in one direction. And then there are some who like, they don't care about things like valuation or price and it means, six months, 12 months later, those investors who maybe regret the entry price are abandoning those entrepreneurs because it's not going according to plan. And it's just like, I just never want to be in that situation where it's like, Oh, a mistake that I made at investment is going to impact future decisions, right? And so, it's a bit of a vague thing, but it is something that I've been thinking a lot about. It's just like we try to be like fair and aligned with entrepreneurs from the get-go.

And you were really articulate and clear about how much you care about being on the side of the entrepreneur. But also, I liked one thing you said, which is, you don't believe in the Midas touch.

And again, this might just be because I'm not a great investor and I'm not on the Midas list. Alex Conrad, where are you? Um, but, but no, I'm trying, I'm like hesitating only because this is very much a personal opinion, but my personal opinion is to be great in venture, you work your ass off to be, seeing the best opportunities. I think you can work really hard, become a domain expert, build a great reputation, have a good brand, be like wonderful as a human being. And as a board partner, you can do all these things. And I think it gets you in the top 10 percent of deal flow, let's say, but then I think within that top 10 percent there is so much luck.

And I think that that's where portfolio construction becomes really interesting is like, listen, at the day, Every single investor would tell you at the time of investment. this is the, but if that were the case, we'd all be much wealthier than we are. And so I think that like you have to work really hard and have to be very good to get to a certain echelon, but I think anyone who says that there's not a significant element of luck beyond that is hubris.
I think that's one of the biggest learnings from over the last decade is I've been in the room with really amazing people and I think they're amazing people, but I don't think anyone is so special, like even like, famously, like in college, I went to University of Arizona and Warren Buffett did this like state school thing every year where he invites a hundred students from state schools to go meet with him. And I remember meeting him and I left being like, that guy's awesome. But I wasn't like, he's got something that we don't have. Like, I think it's hard work and I think it's consistency and I think it's patience and I think it's think it's luck.

It’s one of my favorite Michelle Obama quotes that I can’t quite quote, she says she was in the room with the world leaders every world leader, eh, they are people.

I say that's exactly right and I say that with like a ton of humility But like a big part of why I wanted to go to wonder co is I'd like the privilege of being in the room with Jeffrey Katzenberg for like many hours a week and like Jeffrey is an amazingly bright, ambitious, wonderful entrepreneur, but I, I didn't walk in the room and feel like, Oh, I don't belong here. Like can't compete on this level. And I think that's just a reality of our business. So you have to do it because you love it.

So let’s move more to Arteen and Fika. So you have known TX a long time now. Describe yourself versus TX, like personality wise.

We're so different. and everyone, everyone who knows both of us and, and John as well. who is an amazing human. I like want to be John when I grow up. Um, he's just like such a, such like a North star for me. TX and I, when I started working with TX, I like to joke that I taught him how to write a blog post and he taught me how to be an investor.

Which is like obviously like a euphemism, but I think like TX and I I'm like, extremely extroverted, extremely verbose, I certainly, could take a lesson in brevity. TX is, incredibly succinct, direct, and intentional with his, his words. I think he also, uh, Has the most incredible analytical mind I've ever seen one of my favorite stories about TX was I just thought for the first couple years of working with him that I was like a dummy who didn't know anything and then I met some of his classmates from Stanford GSB and they were all like it must be crazy working with him.

And I literally was like, I just thought I was dumb. Like I, I, so like, I truly think he has one of the most exceptional minds. but beyond all of that, I think the reason we work well together and the reason all of FICO works well together in the partnership as well is like, the values are all the same.
The thing that we talk a lot about at the firm is like, It's not about anyone's opinions. It's about the first party data and like what the data tells us. And so there are some companies where it's like. At first blush, like somebody hates it or somebody loves it. And then we take a week or two and we try to get first party, you know, diligence and first party data. And like, we're very intentional about not taking diligence from entrepreneurs. We try to present our own opportunities for them. And like, so yeah, it's a long way of saying, like, we all have different superpowers. and we know that about each other.

And I'm like, yeah, it'd be scary if we didn't know. Like, obviously, like I know my reputation in the market, and I know that people are like, oh, Arteen knows everyone. Like, it's a very clear thing.

What is it? So people know you know everyone?

Oh, for me, the number one thing that comes up and, and this came up with LPs, Arteen knows a lot of people. He seems to give a lot. does he have discernment? And like the reality is like, yeah, I think that, for me, my natural personality has always been one who just loves spending time with people. Like I love people. I don't do it. Someone asked me once like, what's your networking strategy? I was like, I Don't have one. And that's my strategy is like, I just love doing what I do, but I think it has this perception for some people externally, which is like, Oh, like, is that all he does?
And so like, if I have anything that I preach is like just do what feels good to you because otherwise like you're hiding all this stuff. I'm not like every LP said Oh, it was there's no gotchas. Like I know who I am and I know how I can help and that's why if i'm leading a deal versus if TX is leading a deal the right syndicate partners look different Right because like we ping differently. So yeah, I don't know, my mantra continues to be just like know thyself.

Oh, it's a continuous process. I spent a lot of time with Eric Larry and Sergey, and at one point I was like, you know, I don't know if my, like, bandwidth is as high. Like, these people are really smart. And then we're like, like, if you, I spent all your time with, like, incredible people.
Yeah. Okay. Last question. Just give me like your high school, like what were your parents doing? And who were you in high school? You were in Arizona?

Yeah. Oh, I love that we're ending on this I grew up in Tucson, Arizona Parents immigrated from Iran. I was born in Arizona My mom's family left as refugees. My parents met in the States actually, which is cool. My mom was a realtor and owned a clothing store. My dad owned a Persian rug store, which in this landscape, one of my favorite things to talk about is Pejman at Pear because he famously started his career at a Persian rug store and then he became it. But like, yeah, now it's like such a funny thing. Like in another life, Pajamon, Pajamon could have been my dad.

So you in high school? You were athletic outgoing? You were outgoing right?

Yeah, Going back to my reference about how LA is pretty good at a lot of things, but maybe not the best at any one thing. That was kind of me in high school. I went to, I was really lucky to go to a really, I went to a really small high school and my teachers were incredible. Like I graduated, there was 55 kids in my senior class. and so because of that, I had a really well balanced life. Like I was, yeah, captain of the soccer team and also student body president.

Like, they're like, just like a really, like, lovely, fortunate experience to have, gone to a small school that, that I just loved. and it really shaped a lot of my values and, and who I am.

Well, you are so ready to move to the suburbs of Pasadena Arteen, You are going to love it here. Congratulations on getting back into Venture. So glad that you're back in this ecosystem. And congratulations on Fund 4.

Thank you so much. And thank you for having me. And I wish I could jump into the pool right now.

You can!